Smart Door Lock

I am constantly reading that Wyze devices are not security devices.

How does this lock fall outside of a security device? Maybe they are intended for indoor use only?

To the best of my knowledge, it’s purely semantics.
In order to be classified by some organizations, a company has to offer surveillance (cameras), storage, monitoring, and ability to call emergency services if an alarm is triggered. Some require surveillance, storage, and ability to call emergency services. Other “certification” organizations have different rules.
It seems silly to me…with WYZE I have cameras that alert me when they detect motion, I can view the camera any time I want on my phone or tablet, there is off-site storage of motion-triggered video…but since (I assume) WYZE doesn’t want to go through all the red tape and hoop jumping required by some to get certified as a “home security system” they don’t use that terminology.

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The latching portion of the lock could be redesigned in order to accomodate frame shifts like you describe

In the majority of failing door latches, it’s usually that the door has shifted downwards from the hinges pulling loose. That in itself is easy to design for by making the strike plate have a much taller hole than standard and require that the installation make use of the upper portion

The strike bolt can have a spring-loaded locating pin in it’s center, which would not be affected by any side loading, which would be pressed inwards only when the bolt is all the way inside the strike plate. This pin would then activate a hall effect sensor to let the microprocessor know that the door is really latched all the way

A simpler idea is to have the bolt position monitored by hall effect sensors, and if the motor drive runs 2 seconds without getting the fully-extended feedback signal, then the lock can go into a fail to lock alarm mode

In other words, my attorney friends would call it CYA.

I’m thinking Wyze may have read your post as a challenge. I kid. :blush:

This is actually brilliant. I might want one for the interim until wyze’s new lock is developed! The Wyze forum is incredible in that it’s chock full of elegantly spoken individuals with accelerated thought processes. So, much better reading than other forums. Can I buy one of these from you?,

Well funny you say that. I have a few working prototypes but am still refining the design. I am working on getting it patented as well and would like to work out some sort of deal with Wyze to at least offer them on their site as an additional accessory. I haven’t gotten much of a reaction from them as of yet but I also haven’t shown my design and won’t until my patent is completed. Hopefully in within the month I will be able to show the design.

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Or are you just talking about the recessed brackets? Because you can just order them off Thingiverse if you want them. Or you can download the file and print them yourself if you have or know someone with a 3D printer. There are probably some in your city you can use. I know my local library has some for use. You can even tip me on thingiverse if you feel like doing so but it is really simple so I don’t expect it :smiley:. But I am really excited for my lock design.

A lot of these companies have started off smaller and branched out into full-fledged security. Blink had plans to do this before Amazon bought them, although pretty much everything got scrapped at Blink after Amazon product. (Like every single expansion product.)

There’s nothing about the camera hardware itself, for example, that prevents it from being used for “security” purposes, but to offer a fully-featured “security system,” it would require additional services and hardware. You’d probably want a keypad so that you can arm and disarm it physically. You’d probably want some kind of central hub that can connect to sensors, store things while the internet is down, and communicate at least locally. Ideally it could have an LTE and battery backup failsafe option, too. They’d probably want to make some battery backups available for cameras as well, so that they could run for an hour or so without electricity. They’d also want to make their app more robust in terms of “armed” and “disarmed” modes, etc. From a services standpoint, you’re talking about monitoring.

Wyze doesn’t currently offer any of this, but nothing would prevent them from expanding their product line and accessories. And, in fact, there are companies which literally use identical hardware that ARE security companies.

Most of that is actually possible to do on your own already. (Well, aside from third-party monitoring) You could get a router with LTE failover. You could get USP for your router. You could buy external batteries with pass-through charging for each camera. But there isn’t really a product ecosystem set up for that at Wyze (Yet?)

Anyway, needless to say – a lock is certainly intended to secure your home. But even a lock isn’t a “security system.” And it’s not like you can sue Kwikset if someone drills out your lock and breaks into your house. Your deadbolt isn’t a bank vault.

Maybe. I agree it’s semantics. I don’t think there’s necessarily something like a “security company licensing agency.” (As far as I know.) But a lot of the monitored security system companies will offer guarantees. For example, in the event of a loss due to a failure of the system, they might pay your insurance deductible. Obviously, the more DIY the installation is, the more prone to human error it is, so any kind of guarantee like that would have to be heavily asterisked. Even with the big security companies, it is.

But my take is that since Wyze products are entirely DIY, and since they don’t offer any kind of guarantees beyond the value of the products themselves, Wyze products are therefore “not for security purposes.” But they could certainly decide to change that any time they wanted to expand their products and services.

That’s awesome! It’s pretty exciting to see a topic change to “in-development!”

As the proud owner of the first Wyze Smart-ish Lock, I’d like to hereby volunteer for hardware testing whenever that opportunity may arise. I’ve already filled out the tester form. (Who do I need to butter up? @WyzeGwendolyn?)

I mentioned the hardware design earlier in the thread, before it was “in-development,” but I figured I’d post a photo of the SimpliSafe lock I was talking about, since most people probably won’t bother to Google it themselves. It’s definitely the best-looking smart lock I’ve seen so far. The August locks are so huge and thick. They look like some huge weird appendage hanging off your door. The SimpliSafe one is legitimately slimmer, but it also uses smart visual tricks to give the appearance of slimness. (The thick portion at the top has a thin border so that it visually suggests slimness, even though it’s not super slim) Anyway, here’s a photo of that lock. I really hope the Wyze lock goes a similar route.

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I was trying to be generic and not mention names, but companies like Underwriters Laboratories definitely have a set of criteria that must be met for something to be labeled by them as a security system.
https://standardscatalog.ul.com/standards/en/standard_681_15
There is also a set of criteria they have for a company to “earn” the label of “security system installer.”

Any company that doesn’t want to jump through all those hoops is probably better of…legally…not using the term “security system” even if it’s clearly a system designed to make your home more secure.

Oh, for sure. Third-party certifications or whatever. I just meant that I don’t think there’s a legal definition or a government certification process. In other words, I don’t think it’s illegal to call something “home security” without getting any certifications – Though it’s probably not very smart, even just from a marketing/customer expectation standpoint. Which is exactly why Wyze doesn’t call themselves that.

As much as I enjoy bribery and being buttered up, it’s not actually very effective with me. You’ll just earn my friendship without actually getting Wyze perks out of it. :stuck_out_tongue:

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Would depend on the implementation wouldn’t it?

Something that attaches to your existing locks like August is different than something that attempts to replace your existing locks like Yale, Schlage, or Kwikset.

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I would like to suggest a few more features for the smart lock! 1a) It could have multiple codes for multiple users, but also 1b) one time use codes for people like, the cleaning lady, or the pet sitter. 2) It could have a keypad that is optionally silenced. This is important to me when I come home very late in a deafeningly silent neighborhood. 3) Ideally, the lock would have the auto-lock feature, after a set amount of seconds of your choosing. (Usually 10-99) which has been discussed. 4) Being able to actually get a real time notification when the door locks, would be quite handy. You could also see if your child/significant other/roommate locked the house on the way out. 5) As a very high priority please make the instructions easy for everyone to read, and understand.

(Example interlude)

The last “semi-Smart” lock I bought, who shall remain nameless/ brandless, had a 15 sequence set of numbers and lock/unlock (2 separate buttons of course) you had to press for programming. So, to just reprogram the master code which could be anywhere from 4-8 digits, was absolutely frustrating. Plus you had to accomplish each task in a set time period. For instance, the instructions said to push some key 3 times in 3 seconds, but after each depression, the key would freeze and go dark for a matter of milliseconds making it impossible to put the key in 3 times in 3 seconds, on the first or even third try. It sounds so easy, but when you take the freezing after each press, it became a bit complicated. So, please make it easier to program than this, I beg of you. (Something tells my Wyze is already way ahead of this)

Back on task, 6) would probably be the introduction of small RFID keys that you could swipe for entry. I don’t know how important that is to users but my guess is that it would be nice, but not necessary on the wishlist. 7) This probably won’t happen, but I would love to be able to partake in Amazon‘a “Key” program, however, with their use of their own special edition key cloud cam, I don’t see this making it into the integration. 8) And Least likely of all, could you just put the whole industry to shame once and for all by creating the world’s first smart-lock with motion sensing camera, doorbell, and contact sensor? It really would save everyone so much time, money, and front door space! :joy::joy::joy: 9) Back in reality, I think some people might ask you to consider making 2-3 colors or styles to fit various decor and hardware aesthetics? While I don’t find this to be a priority, your marketing team might say the opposite, when it comes to actually selling them. 10) Last and super least, can I pretty please test one before they are released to the public? It’d literally make my whole year. :joy:

Final thoughts: I’m definitely going to let Wyze’s legal team figure out whether they can sell a “security” device and what the definition of a “security company” is as I’m not a lawyer, and I don’t hold a law degree.

In reality, why wouldn’t you combine the smart cam/doorbell with the door lock, and create a new product that satisfies several needs rather than just a couple, other than the obvious “let’s sell more stuff” viewpoint? I would be quicker to buy something that satisfied multiple product needs, and go with Wyze’s whole line of products as a result, rather than Use a company that isn’t quite as forward thinking. I’m no expert, by any means, but I’m a consumer simply wondering why a few products could not be combined here?

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I’m curious at what make & model had such an inferior interface? Real-world advice on such matters is hard to find being buried as it is in sales pitches and fake Amazon reviews

I have been looking into buying either a Kwikset or Schlage smart deadbolt, and I am comparing what they are doing to what is being proposed here

These name brand companies are the closest I see to establishing any sort of useful standards in smart locks. But they have a few odd quirks that should be considered here. Neither of the two have a centralized control center for managing their locks, instead relying on third-parties to supply the hardware interfaces between doorlocks and routers

Schlage does have one model of doorlock that has it’s own built-in WiFi radio, bypassing this strange situation. I might just go with that one

As for the Amazon Key service, I don’t care for having my personal space being constantly monitored by a corporate entity who cares more about how many purchases I make through their services, than to what the quality of my life might be. And I certainly would never setup a listening device that streams everything in it’s range out to corporate servers where I have no say in the handling or security of my data

So I would wish you to put more faith in the RFID keyfob, or offline mobile apps that firewall their data from any intrusion via malwares. Carefully consider the true consequences of Alexa…

A friend of mine has just installed some lesser-known brand video doorbell that has a bluetooth connection to a phone app, WiFi connection to a cloud based email & sms notification service. The unit has a PIR sensor that activates a white-light floodlight and also serves as a video light. There’s a microphone & speaker built-in. And an anti-tamper feature using MEMS type accellerometers to detect impact forces acting against the door or wall. This potentially could be usede for sensing a door being opened, if the unit were mounted on the door. But it’s meant to replace a standard doorbell, so it’s a wall-mount device that sits next to the door. It uses standard 18650 batteries, for some very impressive runtimes. That will depend on how much time the unit spends in standby vs active modes

All these features are being worked out by other companies, and the ones that fail and the ones that succeed are easily seen by Wyze, well before they commit to a final form factor should they pursue a smart lock addition

It might be a good thing that Wyze is delaying the introduction of a smart lock, because right now is a time to evaluate what does & does not work well on the other side of the fence

Gate has a combined door lock and camera device.

This will be battery operated right?

Yes, I would think so. And since it is on a door, it’s about the only way it could work. :slightly_smiling_face: