Cloud clip | SD event: Same trigger?

Thanks, Gwendolyn! Incidentally, both my active V2 cams (w/SD installed) updated to the new firmware yesterday with no problem. :slight_smile:

Here’s a little table from events early this morning to demonstrate explicitly what we’re talking about.

wyze_table

H - Headlights
P - People
Gr - Green motion

Camera set:

Motion tagging - ON
Event Recording:
-Schedule 2:30a-4:30a
-Detect motion - ON
-Detect sound - OFF
-Send push notification - ON
Detection Settings:
Motion detection settings
-Sensitivity - 50 - ON
Detection Zone - ON - defined
Sound detection settings
-Sensitivity - 50 - OFF
Advanced Settings:
Local Storage
-Record to SD card - ON
-Record on event
Night vision mode - OFF
Record sound - OFF

Camera is aimed outdoors through a window. Hope this helps. -peep

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Interesting… Thank you, peepeep! This is very helpful. Happy to hear that your upgrades went through well! And your table is rockin’. Would you be up for collecting a few more instances of this over the next couple of days and then making a support ticket so I can get the devs to take a look?

Okay, I have to ask. Is this peep-eep, pee-peep, or peep-peep? There has been a bit of a debate. :stuck_out_tongue:

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Been saying pee-peep in my head so… just don’t call me late to dinner!

I’ll trade ya! If you can get those stubborn dev omitters to answer these questions, I’ll go the next step. (I’ve actually already done it - I’ll release it!) :wink:

  1. Is there a single motion detection system common to both cloud clips and SD events? and if so
  2. Is SD event detection sensitivity currently fixed at a common “50” (and if not, what’s the #?)
  3. Did anything change in the most recent firmware upgrade that would affect detection for SD events or cloud clips?

Gotta say, browsing the SD card playback events today was absolutely silky - bumping back and forth on the timeline with the arrow keys, moving around a chunk of playback with tap/hold/move, etc. No glitching, no WTF-ing, a completely new experience. It’s hard to believe it’s just an anomalous gift from the heavens, but I suppose that’s possible… :slight_smile:

Hey @Overwatch, got any comments or suggestions on the dev response, etc?

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Hah! I’m glad I didn’t bet on this one since I would have lost. I’ll let the others know the correct pronunciation.

I’ll see what I can do about getting your questions answered. In the meantime, I’m happy to hear that your Playback experience has improved! :slight_smile:

I have your answers!

  1. Yes, it is a single motion detection system.
  2. No, the number is fixed to 100 so that the likelihood of missing desired events is decreased.
  3. No, nothing changed in the most recent firmware upgrade that would affect the discussion.
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Rock Star!!! :heart_eyes:

Interesting about SD event Motion Detection Sensitivity being fixed at 100. The results below are with in-app Sensitivity for Cloud Clips set to 50. Check lines 18, 25 and 27 - no SD event to match the cloud clip. Hmmm…

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Thanks! I do what I can. -takes a bow-

Thank you for the table! Could you please send in an app/firmware log through the Help & Support section of Account in the Wyze app and include the table (or an image of it) as an attachment along with your time zone and the dates that you were making this table? I’d love to get the devs to look at it.

I appreciate your diligence in producing that chart. If the SD Event recording is set at 100 and not 50, then the lack of SD recording must be a bug instead of a bad design issue. With all the huffing and puffing about “what if they steal my camera”, I think this is a much bigger issue. In your larger chart, you have three events without an SD recording. I think we should also point out the possibility that during cool down, an SD record-able motion didn’t get recorded, but the only way to prove that would be to have an additional camera on continuous and watch each and every cool down segment for unrecorded events. I’m sure this happens more than stolen cameras. In a six hour window, you had three missing recordings. Three out of 25. That’s a 12% failure rate. Roughly, one in ten events don’t get recorded in event only mode. I would say that sounds consistent with my back of the envelope analysis. That’s a big deal and why I use continuous recording.

As for @speadie 's comment

It’s not encouraging that Wyze chooses to dumb down some great functionality instead of coming up with more intuitive ways to handle it.

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Established last night: Wyze Ticket 183959. I referenced you and this thread in the text, just so ya know…

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Good points about bug vs design flaw and a possible correlation with cool down.

And this made me laugh: another camera as opposed to “unflagging personal attention.” What happened to that awesome omniscience I used to have? How could I not’a thunk it? :thinking:

An additional camera on continuous to watch the cool down segments for unrecorded events is a great idea.

I normally run at 100 in-app sensitivity setting which might suggest that if I set it back from 50 to 100 to 100 from 50 there would be MORE unmatched cloud clips.

I have two cameras, one outdoors under an eave, one indoors aimed out a window. The original ticket was focused primarily on the outdoor camera (though I was experiencing inconsistencies with both) because it was trained on an area of practical concern: repeated mischief with a big cactus we have. The indoor camera was of less practical, more experimental, use.

I used the indoor camera for the testing I’ve documented with the table because it’s being used as Wyze designed/approved: indoors.

The outdoor camera, set at 100 sensitivity, gives me the results I’m after: very subtle movement within the detection zone generates a cloud clip/alert (but alas, not a matching SD event.) These subtle cloud clip events are consistently NOT green motion tagged. The SD event failure percentage here would be much higher if logged.

I tried continuous SD recording but didn’t continue it because:

  1. I didn’t want to deal with card-bricking/troubleshooting/replacement
  2. I preferred the indexed SD feature.
  3. I’m an idiot

I have found that plus ca change the more I am an idiot. But that’s a whole nuther story, eh?

C’est la vie.

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What you say here (esp, These are busy people and they just don’t have time to screw around with issues…)

is the reason I haven’t shared Wyzecams with my extended family. Not-ready-for-prime-time without a significant dose of geek-freakery (not included.)

I sent your ticket over to the dev side. And we’ll work on improving the product. :slight_smile:

We understand your reservations and apologize for the trouble.

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I would think the opposite. IF, the SD recording and the cloud events are independent, a detection setting of 50 should, in theory, produce fewer cloud events as a base to look for comparable SD recordings. The number of SD recordings should remain the same, assuming the same number of motions. IOW, if you had two cameras side by side, one detection setting of 50 and one at 100, they both should have the same SD recordings. The sensitivity setting of the 50 level device should, again in theory, have fewer cloud events than the 100 setting. Also, people may be setting their sensitivity down in an attempt to miss some insect 2" from the lens and miss the dude breaking into their car 20 yards away. Being able to watch months of event only recording is pretty worthless if you miss the one event from three days ago. I just know that here the camera on event only would not have caught their approach because it was in the previous minute and if it hadn’t been for my motion light, might not have caught it at all.

We have Nest cameras and Ring cameras in our neighborhood watch and anytime we’ve needed to view something captured, it hasn’t been there. I don’t know if it’s the angle or event only type setting, but whatever it is, they’ve yet to prove their worth.

I’m impressed with Wyze’ enthusiasm for direct, informed, public criticism. It makes claims and backs them up. Well done.

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I think we’re on the same page. Edited for clarity:

The “previous minute approach” is an event-only vulnerability, indeed.

Good to know about the Nest & Ring cams also being flawed. I have no experience with them.

:+1: I run all of mine at 100 except for one and all on continuous at SD quality. If something happens, I better find it within a week, but at least it will be there. Your table identifies roughly one in ten videos are not there in event only mode, but I hope you don’t expect a robust discussion on it here. People don’t seem to get they are rolling the dice on having the video they need. :crossed_fingers:

As for Nest and Ring cameras, it’s funny how they all boasted on having them yet I’m the only one that has been able to pull up video of something going on in our neighborhood. That’s my experience with them.

Actually, no. Small group, high substance is my pref. No group, high substance is fine, too. Starting with the latter is a good way to form the former. Then the world, as they say, is your oyster.

https://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_board/7/messages/132.html

An ideally designed SD event detection system operating flawlessy would be effectively equivalent to SD continuous recording because motion within any single minute would be detected and recorded.

If motion visible but too subtle to register occurred during any minute nothing would be recorded during that minute and context it may have provided for the prior or succeeding minutes will be absent.

If continuous recording were made the only option the problem for the devs would be to make detection as close to ideal as possible and to design an interface whereby the user responding to a detection alert notification would be taken directly to the time point on the SD card where the detection occurred.

Cloud clips would be adjunct to the operation of an independently operating local system.

This requires a reliable consistent local storage system which SD as far as I can tell is not and will not be.

Which may be why they introduced that network local storage device thingy.

Now if all this deductive/inductive foofaraw is valid I would hope that devs would be compassionate enough to tell their friends the motivated customer not to break a sweat troubleshooting a flawed system that is on the brink of being replaced.

If they can’t do this because that would mean some people would stop buying the current product until the improved product debutes then ok I get it game-set-match.

But I’m guessing they will not abandon the SD card option because hell a lot of people are dedicated to it in a big way and may not want their recently purchased gear to be thought of and treated as entry level or legacy.

Or some such thing galumph.

Via Gwendolyn:

I’ll send you an official message and close your ticket shortly. But here’s the information! Apparently your help allowed us to find the bug and I hear that it’s fixed in version 4.94.29. So when you get that firmware, please test it and let us know how it goes. :slight_smile:

Was gonna wait until new firmware was released and tested before posting this, but now not sure how long that will be, so here it is, fwiw.

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Hey, new firmware version (4.9.4.37), so an update:

Made the same analysis with identical settings and scene details as here - except with

Motion detection settings | Sensitivity - 100

(vs 50)

The tabled results:

6 cloud clips | 6 SD events

over 2 hrs.

wyze_table_3

Promising.

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